Jul 102013

So there is this post about “Rock Beyond Belief” moving to Patheos, yay Justin Griffith is going to blog more … Oh wait, some rather unpleasant slyme seems to have got stuck onto the end of the post. This is based on a comment I posted there but it was long enough and I didn’t want to expand on this subject too much on that thread.

 Did you know that he [PZ] recommended and linked to cartoons of women being *raped* by octopus-like tentacled animals?

Why no I didn’t know that,shall we have a look into the claim?

So PZ has this post and the anti-FTB mythologists then link to the wayback machine as a death blow for that now broken link, here.  OOPS! The sharp eyed immediately notice that Strawkins and PitchGuest (I think Stawkins created this rubbish, presumably on the Slymepit) link not to the same URL as PZ but a different one on the same site. I wonder why. Lets have a look at the actual page PZ linked to… Here.

Somewhat less porn and focussed on the origins of tentacle porn in Japan and how it is currently expressed. Not my thing but each to his or her own kink. Translate the page and lift yourself off the fainting couch and read it, quite interesting about the origins of tentacle rape porn in Japan. But its taboo! Feminists are all sex negative harridans and couldn’t possibly condone even linking to this heresy! PZ’s linking to an article discussing the origins of it while not condoning it clearly means he is fine with ALL TENTACLE RAPE PORN EVAR!

(In fact he discusses how he dislikes the use of tentacles as proxy dildos or penises in his kinky porn here. )

Here is where I came across this (Oooh errr, fnaar fnaar! *Level of discussion*) from MozesZD. I recommend reading in Maude Flanders voice and adding “Won’t someone think of the children!!!” after this bit -

Rape porn. Beastiality porn. Fisting. Degradation of women. Objectification of women. Women giving blow jobs. Women with semen dripping out of their mouths.

WOMEN GIVING BLOW JOBS? OH.MY.GOD!!!eleventy!!1!… What exactly is wrong with fisting or sucking a bit of semen, let alone consensual degradation or objectification in a kink context? Shame most of that was not in the link PZ actually provided but even so a prude would object but thats about it. Putting dead sea creatures on your naked bod and taking a picture or drawing it is wrong now? I object to that as a vegetarian not the porn aspect.

Greta Christina discusses this issue of fantasy in kink nicely here. The bigger issue for me is how are we supposed to have an intelligent, adult, conversation with the anti-FTB people as is often discussed? Have a look at that post there is no one saying that this sex-negative bullshit smells a bit off, Justin Griffith who I admire as an atheist blogger spews it out on his post. Why? To score some cheap points against FTBs not to make any real or interesting point about kink. This has been on my mind recently as in a conversation with Rich Sanderson on Twitter I mentioned Michael Shermers article on how racism is an unconscious bias we all are subject to. Article is here if you are interested, shame Shermer couldn’t extend that line of thinking to misogyny. Rich’s response? To assert that all #FTBullies are racist and I just admitted to being a racist, he totally refused to address anything in the post. Cheap point scoring is what many want not dialogue **.


** Not necessarily true of all the Slymepit, some have even left it recently due to the hyperbole there. SIN have kicked Justin Vacula off the network for his support of AVfM, so progress is there and many are realising that a dogmatic anti-FTB position just makes them look as foolish as MosesZD , Rich, PitchGuest and Strawkins.

 Posted by at 11:28 am

  4 Responses to “Sex negativity, grown up dialogue and #FTBullies mythologising …”

  1. I was going to write something like this, but now I don’t have to.

    The devotion of some people to creating and sustaining myths to support their position keeps making me wonder if I do the same. My bullshit detector is reasonably acute, but maybe – as with these people – it doesn’t work so well on myself. There is certainly no particular shortage of people who have made that argument.

    It was this sort of concern that led me to skepticism in the first place. As a kid, I read a lot of pop-sci books. Some of them were woo masquerading as science and I was worried that I couldn’t always tell the difference. So I developed and learned about tools for detecting nonsense. But my point is that I did this because I was starkly aware of how easily I could be fooled.

    I’m sure that many religious types don’t entertain that sort of reflection (my parents taught me that religious doubt was a good thing because it made faith more important, virtuous and powerful, how’s that for a fucked-up rationalisation?) But I wonder if these pit denizens, MRA types and random FtB-dislikers constantly doubt and question their convictions and the tactics they use to bring about whatever their goals are. It’s hard to believe that they do.

    • Indeed I constantly wonder if what I believe is correct, although pretty easy to ignore 99% of what the anti-FTB ppl tell me I believe as they haven’t a clue. As for people being “hypocrites” and as Justin Griffith seems to now think “fake feminists”, one of the key part of scepticism is accepting you cannot know peoples minds and people are inherently flawed so hypocrisy is inevitable on all “sides”. You cannot know your own mind let alone other peoples so obsessing over their motivations rather than what principles they are upholding is pointless. Raking over things they did years ago as part of a motivated reasoning smear is even less productive. What are they saying and as a whole do their principles align with what you think is right?

      I could never align with the anti-FTB ppl because early on I asked them about their core principles and the view that slurs are fine, triggering is made up by “special snowflakes” (Unless its Greg Laden triggering Justin Griffith). Their constant bullies narrative about “professional victims” and “people with thin skin should fuck off the internet”. It all adds up to no matter how much I personally disliked any commenter(s) or blogger(s) at FTB and however nasty they were to me, I couldn’t support their view.

      Seems to me the feminism that we have expressed in the atheist-sceptic community, sex positive, trans* inclusive, evidence based feminism is the best. Not *the* answer as it will continue to evolve and improve, kicking the CHUDs out as RC puts it will only hasten improvement.

      I also am open to being dissuaded, if equity feminists manage to provide some evidence then I’ll look at it. I asked MetaPhoenix/MetaLogic to address this in his blog as he asked for suggestions on Skeptischism.com

    • The devotion of some people to creating and sustaining myths to support their position keeps making me wonder if I do the same.

      Indeed – quite a problem. Although, as you suggest, I think it is a fairly common one that manifests itself on both sides of any given divide. While I’ll readily concede that there are more than a few pushing the #FTBullies hashtag who are guilty of that, my impression is that there are no few on the FTB side who are guilty in similar mythologizing about the SlymePit. For instance, here’s (1) the text of a comment of mine on Jason Thibeault’s [Lousy Canuck’s] post on the topic of the mythologizing of FTB. You’ll note that it is still in moderation at FTB – why I posted it in the Pit – and that is probably because I had the temerity to point out that Jason was engaging in some “mythologizing” himself.

      You might also note that Oolon made some effort to correct some of the “errors” in perception that he had contributed to, but that he has fallen well short in correcting them all.

      But that moderation policy is one of the many reasons why so many are bent out of shape over FTB: it tends to preclude, if not actively promote, the rather self-serving mythologizing of the Pit, not to mention many other sources and perspectives.

      As a kid, I read a lot of pop-sci books. Some of them were woo masquerading as science and I was worried that I couldn’t always tell the difference. So I developed and learned about tools for detecting nonsense.

      In that case, you might enjoy reading, if you haven’t already done so, a book by the philosopher/biologist Massimo Pigliucci titled Nonsense on Stilts: How to Tell Science from Bunk. Highly recommended. Also, the series of essays by the British scientist P.B. Medawar titled The Art of the Soluble, many of which are on the philosophy and limitations of science.

      1) “_http://slymepit.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=98258#p98258”;

  2. Equating criticism of degradation and the validation of abuse in the sex industry with disliking sex is the same as equating criticism of intensive farming with disliking hens.

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